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>> cenk: later tonight where are we going to see you? you got that right. "the young turks".com. right now "viewpoint" is next. [ ♪ theme music ♪ ] >> john: drone strikes have huge public support. so does nickel back. it doesn't make it right dick morris was dumped by fox news, now he's looking for other fields he could be wrong about everything. maybe president obama's cabinet. and someone pulled up up up in chuck
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e. cheese where someone had a gun. no ones with hurt. they hated the pizza. it's the birthday of late bob marley. the living rick, and the 55th birth date of axl rose who is probably starting a concert several hours late. this is "viewpoint." [ ♪ theme music ♪ ] >> john: good evening i'm john fugelsang. thank you so much for joining us this evening. coming up, renewing the violence against women act should not be a political issue but some how it is. the reverend pat robertson embraces his inner homophobe again. first, president obama met senate democrats for a private strategy session in annapolis
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maryland, today. the topics were sure to include the president's legislative agenda including gun control measures that would ban assault weapons and high-capacity ammo clips. senators who are afraid of the nra or to be polite, concerned over the impact that legislation might have, might heed this warning from comedian chris rock delivered a news conference called by "a demand a plan" advocates. >> the president and the first lady are kind of like the mom and dad of the country. when your dad says something you listen. and when you don't it usually bites you in the ass later on. >> john: but many in the politicians seem more concerned about the nra. thousands turned out to support martin o'malley's proposed gun control plan. including assault weapons and high capacity ammunition clip bans and a new mandate
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requiring handgun purchasers get their state police license only after fingerprinting, a more exacting new background check and a gun class. now it true that house democrats and republicans are co-sponsoring a bill that would hike penalties for gun trafficking, and maryland democratic congressman elijah cummings says that's progress. >> this is the first time in the house where we have cosponsorship with republicans. perhaps we can add other provisions later. >> john: so far fear has been developed and exploited to be lifted. fear of uncontrolled violence that could swallow us any time. like the world that wayne lapierre describe at the group's 2012 annual meeting. >> we know that our government lies and shrouds the truth about
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the very real threats to our lives and our way of life. we know our government knows how vulnerable we are to terrorist attacks that could freeze our transportation systems black out our cities, shut down the distribution of fuel and food, and lead to perhaps months of unprecedented elimination of social order. >> john: that was not a david lynch film. now with lots of him from its corporate allies in the firearms business, the nra has so altered the climate for gun-controlled measures that la pierre no longer makes comments like this one, after the 1999 columbine school massacre. >> we believe in absolutely begun-free zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. [applause] that means no guns in america's schools, period, with the rare exception of law enforcement
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officers or trained security personnel. >> john: contrast that bit of sanity with this notorious comment from lapier year after the december's sandy hook elementary school massacre. >> i call on congress today to act immediately to appropriate whatever is necessary to put armed police officers in every single school in this nation. >> for more on the nra and the world of corporate sponsors that wayne lapierre has helped to create i'm joined by the author of "adam lanz's arrest arsenal." and the author of "the nra vs
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vs.america." gentlemen, it's great to have both of you here this evening. benjamin, i want to start with you. your story in part is how america's gun culture evolved in recent years. why are gun owners, as you write, doubling down on buying semi auto rifles are they afraid they won't be able to follow their hobby any longer, or is it something deeper here. >> that's a really good question. what has happened over the last ten years is the kind of guns that gun owners are buying has changed. ten years ago there was twice as many rifles sold as. pistols. rifles you use for hunting broadly, and pistols for self defense. now that balance has shifted and people are buying more pistols than rifles. when we talk about whether this is a reasonable thing for people to buy for their hobby i think what we have to remember is that the kind of use that buyers are
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imagining has visited very dramatically. where ten years ago you could say possibly the gun owners in america are still thinking about going out and hunting dear. now that balance has really changed. and what they're imagining is a visceral threat to their home or loved ones. what is weird about that, this is a decade in which crime has fallen precipitously. as there is less actual threat of some home invasion or a murder, a mugging the perception of those threats, and the perception of the need to defendoneoneselves has risen. >> john: base on your reporting who do you think the nra really represents, and more importantly, why? >> well, starting in 1999, the industry was under assault like
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the tobacco makers, the big tobacco was from civil liability lawsuit. and the nra got out in front of the industry. by 2005 it had passed legislation to immunize the industry from these lawsuit. that 1999 moment through 2005 saw this consolidation of industry incorporations in the under nra. now they take million-dollar contributions from smith and wesson, from midway, ammunition flyers, and these folks join what is a golden ring of freedom. they have these fancy gold blazers, and they hang out with wayne and they help shape policy. you have $35 million members but the folks who are ruling the
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roost are industry, foreign industries and ceos and titans. >> john: that's who they're really working for. you mentioned the rise of handgun sales and it is worth noting that handguns are used most overwhelmingly in gun shootings in this country. how did the arsenal used by adam lanza illustrate the fear that of the nra that they're out to destroy them. >> there are 300 million guns in private hands, guns that lasts 100 years even if they're not particularly well taken care of. this is an astonishing mass of metal. we're looking at pretty well considered, smart efforts to restrict sales of new guns to maybe to see more ambitious
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restrict the kinds of new guns that can be sold. we're still talking about a huge amount of potential lethality out there. adam lanza carried four guns at newtown. with his mother he shot his mother with a .22 caliber rifle which is a very traditional hunting rifle. it's the kind of rifle that the boy scouts use to train their kids on. he carried with him two semiautomatic handguns which he did not actually use, to the schools. and he shot everyone with an ar-15 clone, a repurposed military weapon from vietnam. i think what you see there is the increaseing firepower and sort of radical weaponry that we move to, where totally legally in a totally normalized way his mother is able to buy what is
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effectively a military weapon. the starting point of that trend and what the nra often wants to tell you is what gun ownership looks like is the weapon that he used first to kill his mother. but we've gone, and you see just in the progress of his arsenal we've gone a long, long way from there. >> john: tim, does this astonish you? what do you think was the nra's biggest political win of the last decade, and how is that shaping the gun control debate today? >> as i referenced this 2005 bill to immune myself immunize the industry from lawsuits that could have been damaging to the industry like tobacco was to the tobacco industry. it freed the gun manufacturers for marketing ploy. they have all these military weapons. it's not just the ar-15 clones but the handguns that were used in the fort hood shooting, for example. the handgun originally designed
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for n.a.t.o. to blast through body armor. this is weapons that are tested on the battlefield and sold and marketed for their lethality. there is no viability for these products that are incredibly deadly, they're used for killing people. whether they end up here or down in mexico, killing tens of thousands. there is no liability to the gun manufacturers. there is no liability to the retailers. there is no liability to the gun distributors. and i don't know that we have seen this rise of conceal carry and your ground laws, which have gone to make it--people used to keep their guns by the bedside table. now it's increasingly acceptable in places like florida and beyond to take the gun out into public, and if you feel inspired to use it, you basically immunize yourself from liability as long as you claim self
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defense. you have these incredible lethal guns and you have these powerful guns that make them capable of incredible stopping power is what the industry calls it, that are being marketed simultaneously. >> john: so lethality is a marketing ploy. does it speak to some insecuritity fear, or some charming mail tendency? >> again the nra through its marketing association is marketing this fear. this katrina around the corner there could be social collapse. nancy lanza was bracing herself for social collapse, so she provided the arsenal that her son used to kill her and others. it's a gross state of affair to
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be using fear to sell guns. >> john: i have this last question. many people say that sandy hook changed everything where gun laws are concerned and polls show that there is favoring of the president's proposals. what do you think if anything will pass? >> i think there will be some new back-ground check movement, but i think look, even the universe of what we're talking about is pretty narrow, even the universe of what democrats have proposed is pretty slim. i don't think you'll get an assault-weapons ban. i don't think you'll get anything federal bigger than that. >> john: tim, do you agree? is harry reid going to let the assault weapons ban die. >> it's going to die in the house. that's where the nra has more swag, the primary republicans who go wobbly gone guns. it will be through efforts in states like we saw in new york, maryland and elsewhere. >> john: i guess this is a
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win-win for the white house. the next time there is a terrible massacre, house g.o.p. you own it. gentlemen, everyone read both of these gentlemen's pieces. they're great. thank you so much for being on the program. >> thank you. >> john: the violence against women act tries to get through congress again. that's next.
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the feel-good story of the day. it's rare that you get to see a feel-good story on the news. newtown high school basketball, newtown, connecticut. newtown down two. the three-point shot at the buzzer. newtown wins the game, 57-56 but one narrow point at the very end. happy news out of newtown connecticut. may they have lots more, a and the people in the stands, too. after waging and losing the war on women this past election, the g.o.p. will have a chance to prove if they learned anything from their wide-margin defeat. the violence against women act the landmark 1994 legislation that protects women from domestic abuse, has been renewed twice before, where it is set to pass the senate this week and head to the house where it faces answer certain future. it was killed by the g.o.p. in the house. but perhaps chastened the
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republicans might mind the gender gap and follow one of their own. this is susan collins on monday. >> this is plot and never should be a partisan issue. this is an equal opportunity crime. >> john: funnying us now is the president of the national organization for women terry o'neil. thank you for being with us tonight. >> it's great to be here, john. >> john: thank you so much. is it fathomable that our republican friends in the house could remany being the party that opposes the violence against women act? >> i would have thought after the 2012 elections that the republican party would understand two things. number one, they have a problem with women. number two, they have specifically have a problem around rape. the violence against women act is specifically aimed at responding to sexual assault as well as domestic violence and dating violence and stalking. we're on the verge of passing a very good bill in the senate as we did in the last congress.
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what remains to be seen is whether the house, which is under the control of the republican party, a party which in turn remains under the control of a radical fringe, remains to be seen whether they will really understand what the voters were saying to them, and whether they will continue to try to block this very popular really mom and apple pie legislation. >> john: well, it is mind boggling. even those on the radical fringe love their moms, their wives and their daughters. this wasthere was a provision of women with visas who were abused. do these have many morality behind them? >> those concerns had been called rightly racist and homophobic and that's accurate.
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for a lesbian gay transgender victims, we found that rates at 80% they report not being able to access services. this compares to rates of 20% to 30% in the heterosexual community unable to access services after sexual assault or domestic violence. now the 20% to 30% is bad enough. it's an indication of how badly underfunded these programs under the violence against women act have always been. but 80% is absolutely outrageous. and the senate bill makes provision for that. the republicans in the house and frankly many republican leaders in the senate in the 112th congress didn't like those lgbt provisions. in the native american communities, on reservations, the rate of sexual assault is exceptionally high. unlike other communities where sexual assault is done, there is not a lot of cross racial
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perpetration of rape. so within the african-american rapeers and victims that's not true on the reservation. the reason is because tribal authorities don't have jurisdictions over rape suspect who is are not members of the tribe. when you have a predominantly white, non-tribal members committing rapes on reservations knowing that local authorities have no jurisdiction over them. knowing that the victim has to travel sometimes up to 200 miles to go to a federal office to get a stay away order or protective order. in her community in her neighborhood her rapist is walking away free knowing that he can do this with immunity. what the republican leadership has specifically eric cantor said he didn't want those provisions in the senate bill to apply to keep native american
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women protected because he did not trust tribal authorities to honor or respect white rape suspects. it's astonishing. >> john: yeah, i want to say i expect more from congressman cantor, but this is why you want a federal government step in, when states let women down. after the wallop that the g.o.p. got in last election, don't they need to change their stance? eight senators, all of them male already oppose moving this legislation anywhere in the u.s. senate. >> that's absolutely right john. in fact, the good news is that all of the republican women senators, except one, deb fisher, and all of the democrat democratic senators have signed on as cosponsors. i will say this, eric cantor we moved him enough to where he's beginning to change his rhetoric rhetoric. that's clearly not enough.
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he needs to change his policies. we know what the republican leadership is doing right now is they're doing what amounts to a head fake. they want to pursue their extremist policies but dress up the policies in nicer language, less extremist language. women are not fooled. and when it comes to the violence against women act men are with us. the voters will not be fooled. it will be interesting to see what happens in the next election cycle. >> john: sarah palin saw that, and it involved lipstick and pork, i believe. we'll be watching this legislation closely. thank you for coming in. >> thank you. >> john: pat robertson has weighed in on gays in the boy scouts and his opinion is as moral and you would expect no, it's much worse. that's next.
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[ ♪ music ♪ ] >> john: the reverend pat robertson wants to you know if the boy scouts end their ban on
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gay membership, it will be modern day gropes of wrath where evil pedophiles will migrate to the boy scouts off trees and have their way with them because that's what all gay people. i guess pat who thinks it would an save haven for a young boy like the catholic church. pedophiles tend to be sneaky about their proclivities, so the boy scouts that accepts gays that will be the last place where they'll go. what pat robertson forgets it's not called the boy scouts. it's called the boy scouts of america. the "of america" part is why our gay neighbors should be able to participate. pat robertson likes to say that hurricanes is the god's punishment for sins of america. i think the punish, is reverend
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>> john: earlier today on my twitter feed, highly suggested we were conversing about wasting millions of dollars on people's birthday. i'll be talking about the gripper's big 102nd birthday. if you have a comment for the show, tweet us or use the #"viewpoint." now the president of the united states is claiming that it's necessary in order to fight the war on terror. no you didn't just enter a time machine and wind up in the days of george w. bush, but you might as well have, my friends because the reasoning is eerily similar. tomorrow, when john brennan the president's nominee for c.i.a. director appears for the senate
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intelligence committee where he'll face tough drone-related questions, or maybe not at all. his appearance comes two days after the leak of the justice department's white paper which justified the administration's case for targeted killing of americans, and yet the use of drones remains extremely popular with 83% of americans including a vast majority of democrats supporting their use even against americans living in other countries. how popular are they? so popular they bring together the unlikeliest adversaries. >> i believe the president needs to have tools to deal with people like anwar al-arwak, i. >> no word on where his 16-year-old son was a thread. joining me now is the host of
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ring of fire. >> john: are you surprised? is this because the poll numbers have been tested so well. >> we saw this with obama on keystone, and lenny brewer's resignation. we're not surprised. this is his m.o. see what the people have to say rather than take his position, just react. i don't think we're going to find anything new any way. we know what their talking points are. >> john: when karl rove agrees with you you might want to question what you're doing. but 83% of americans approve of drones. why are people so quick to accept this as the best option and reluctant to question it? >> well, it's never going to happen to them. they're not a terrorist so therefore it doesn't affect them. you have the talking heads discussing this issue day after day, trying to tell the american public based on two cases that
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the president has the authority to do this. it gives the president no authority to do the types of things to here. so for the fall-back is the use of military force, it was a bill passed in 2011 and it was the green light to kill americans on foreign soil. it was vague crazy talk by a gaggle of drafters who saw the opportunity to obliterate the 14th amendment by erasing checks and balances and destroying any sense of transparency. this was their opportunity john, to rush in, and obliterate the constitution even beyond what we saw down with gitmo and
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it was deplorable. >> john: mike, i respect people who say that this is how wars are going to be waged in the future. we don't want to put troops on the ground. we can have robots do it for us even though these people have clearly never watched "terminator" or "attack of the clones." there has been a lot of civilian deaths and every time we our drones take out a civilian, we create new terrorists. could this possiblely then the confirmation or are we all blind to what ensues after this. >> the question really wants drone affect to take place. look, he's going to get up there and do what the rest of them are doing, john, and that is to deny what we know. we've the bureau of journalists
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take a look at this. it was 2004 and 2013, there were 900 civilian deaths, 100 of them were children. nevertheless, this administration is blind to that. they're going to have him take the stand and talk simply government policy, that is gee, whiz, we're not killing any civilians when everybody understands that that is a lie. so i don't think we're going to see any surprises. we're going to see jumbled talk about the right of high level official to murder anyone on foreign soil. who is the high level official. the president gives the go head? is it the c.i.a. who says to do it, the political adviser who can murder you on foreign policy. mexico mississippi? >> john: it's authorizations right here in the continental
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united states. an increasing number of congress is considering limiting the president's ability to kill on foreign soils. is there anything where we question this? >> you just did a great segment on handguns. the american public, we have a culture of fear. we're terrified of everything. that's why we own so many handguns. that's why we're so willing to allow this president to trample on our freedom because we are so afraid of everything. the language we're going to hear tomorrow is this is a dangerous world. it's the same language we hear all of the obama apologizists talking about, it's the same thing with george bush. this is a dangerous world has been focused to death. they know it scares the american public. we're going to hear it again. this is a culture that will not react until they understand that it affects them.
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by 2020, john, we're going to have 30,000 drones flying overhead on our domestic soil. it's because of this new idea if it's a drone it's probably okay. you have an whole industry that is built up around this. it's simply going to get worse and worse. it's getting to the point where they have something called the humming bird drone that weighs less than two pounds, fly into your backyard and land on a tree and scope as far as three miles on u.s. soil. until it hits the americans and the americans understand that this isn't about the guys over in a desert that we're using drones against this is american soil where you have corporation who is are buying drones by the thousands, who are using them for all different purposes, who finally get it. until they finally understand that oh, yeah, the 14th amendment does matter. the 4th amendment matters the 5
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amendment matters it doesn't affect them today. of this, they don't get it. >> john: a guy i wish was on the senate mike papentonio, thank you for being on the show. come back again. >> thanks. >> john: dick morris is losing his commentator job on fox news. i know we're all heartbroken but first let's see what is coming up on "say anything with joy behar"." joy? ♪ never going to give you up ♪ never going to let you ♪ down, never going to run around ♪ and desert you"" >> happy birthday, rick. i ran around on you and made you cry. now with joy. >> joy: thanks john. next on say "say anything" chelsey tells me what it was like to be a virgin. >> i wanted to lose it to a boyfriend who loves me. once i got to be 21, then you're
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like this--you're a freak. you have psychological problems. the guy is afraid. he doesn't want that pressure. it's weird. >> joy: i talk to comedians who have a new documentary where they try try to explain why some men don't find women funny. and more "viewpoint" with john fugelsang right after this. hershey's simple pleasures chocolate. 30% less fat, 100% delicious. people with sore throats have something new to say. ahh ! mmm ! ahh ! finally, there's cepacol sensations. serious sore throat medicine seriously great taste. plus the medicine lasts long after the lozenge is gone. ahh ! mmm ! cepacol sensations.
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>> john: i'm trying to feel bad for dick morris, i really am. the former clinton adviser and current g.o.p. mynah bird is losing his commentator job on fox news? why? because maybe he said mitt romney would win the election by at least four percentage points. that republicans would take back the senate. that donald trump and mike huckabee would run for president
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president. if you were watching fox news, wasn't lack of realism part of your job? according to a new poll, only 41% of viewers even trust fox any more. that's a new low. and they also said that they trusted fox over other news outlets. so dick morris is out. sarah palin is out but they're keeping karl rove, maybe because he's declaring war on unelectable wing-nut conservatives. let's welcome tonight's panel of none experts. pete dominick host of stand up with pete dominick and sirius xms potus politics. and tina dupuy syndicated columnist, and actor comedian sherrod small. is fox news' facial reconstruction going to work? >> no, they'll continue to do
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well and get great ratings because if your model is scaring people the hell out of people. stay tune to find out what you need to know about something that will kill you. that's all they do. >> john: and it works for the nra, but their ratings are down. >> i think fox still has their thumb on what's happening. i think people want to watch it. whoever is in office, the ratings of other guys of channels will go up. >> hannity and o'reilly was given a new deal when obama was sworn in. but tina, what does fox have to do to change their brand or do they? >> i think they're trying to change their brand. they'll try to get eye candy. scott brown. dick morris was an useful idiot during the campaign, now he's not very useful. >> they're really good at what
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letting us know what to be afraid of. you know-- >> john: are you pointing to the blond? >> i know. >> groups of people of which we should be scare of scared of, and beautiful blonds. >> he is pretty. >> john: he's the first naked cosmo model to be signed by fox news. i don't know if you ever saw the naked pictures. he said it was very cold in massachusetts that day. what's next for a guy like dick morris? i mean,? >> he has a face for radio. >> john: he's right. >> speaking. >> john: when you you've been wrong about everything. >> i was going to say the internet has a place for dick morris it had a place for other rejects, glenn beck and sarah palin is still on the internet i believe. dick morris probably will find a home there. >> how does glenn beck have all
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this money? does the radio bring him all that money? >> john: it's all subscription based. he brought over joe cheat with him from fox and they have a smart network that tells his audience what they want to hear. >> he has a lot of money but can he see himself when he looks in a mirror? >> john: and bill reilly's mena age audience is now 106 years old. the catholic church said that the media did a service for the church by exposing child moss lesters in the clergy. they actually admitted exposing the pedophile priest is a good thing and the media is not the villain here. is this a huge, huge step in the church getting closeer of the church getting a little more honest about their sins. >> we already thank the media
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for it. the courts thank the media for it. who cares about the church. >> john: this is all anti-catholic bigotry. this is a representative. >> they have all the documentation to help the "media" expose them. >> john: you're talking about l.a. >> yes, they had all the documentation. the vatican, they had all the documentation of every single priest that pedophile priest, alleged or otherwise, they have proof and they have documentation. they could disclose that and give that to the media and they're not. >> dan brown might get his hands on if. the author of the da vinci code will get it. to speak to power and take down powerful, corrupt constitutions. there is a new documentary on hbo called mea culpa talking about one priest and the catholic church. it's fantastic. it's on hbo now. i just interviewed him.
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it's the idea that that's what the media is supposed to be doing. we're supposed to look at them and call them out whether it's the catholic church, the government. >> john: i think jesus would be doing the same thing if he was around. >> he would be a muck raker. absolutely. >> john: they didn't execute him for not rocking the boat. i tell you something i come from an abnormally catholic background. short of getting rid of the stupid celibacy law what can the catholics do to improve their image. >> get a deejay. >> let women have a leadership role. >> i think the priests should not be celibat. it's antiquated. >> john: it was put in place less than a thousand years ago. >> in the catholic world it's not antiquated. >> john: that's why you're a freak now. >> i went to a catholic high school and you know a grown man not having relations with a woman is weird. >> i went to a catholic school
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for a couple of years and no one paid attention to me. >> the most catholic thing i've ever done is right here on this panel. >> john: do you think the media gets blamed too much? >> i think it's the boogeyman. the easy thing to go to. >> did the paparazzi follow lindsay lohan too much, no, that's what you chose to do. >> it's about shooting the messenger. >> you can't kill them but you can wound them. >> john: stopping first class mail on saturday. packages yes but no letters. you can blame the congress where they hamstring it's ability to make decisions and for the state it to pre-fund retiree health benefits for the next 75 years and cutting mail on saturday was also their idea. so it's a hit on the post office by republicans in congress, is it not? they said even though you guys are sufficient issue. you don't have a budget deficit
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we're worried about we're going to make you fund your pension plan 70 years in the future just to bankrupt you. >> they purposely tried to tank it. it's really sad. a lot of older people, rural americans who depend on medication, this will hurt them. the post office entire funding comes from postage. most people think it's taxpayer money. they had to sell off a lot of greatest properties they had the most beautiful post offices here in new york, and we can look at dianne feinstein's office husband for that. we'll look into it. >> micromanaged by congress but they don't get the taxpayer money from congress. it's a time bomb by the bush administration to make government smaller. >> john: exactly. >> and so everything that they want to see--yes--it comes to fruition.
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>> and all these people who sitting around all these year not attacking congress, congress attacks them. >> how does it make you feel? >> that was sent from you and it was anthrax. i regifted it. >> john: anyone who remembers the 80s and 90s postal workers are the people you do not want to upset. we'll talk about a very special birthday, and we're not talking about bob marley. we'll be right back. [ ♪ music ♪ ] break the ice with breath-freshening cooling crystals. ice breakers.
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>> welcome back. quick question for my panel. today is ronald reagan's 102nd birthday. how did you celebrate pete? >> well, the reason i did this, i sold weapons to iran for an appearance on your show. >> did you really? a traditionalist. >> and i also gave my daughter ketchup and told her it was a vegetable. >> john: how did you celebrate the gripper's birthday? >> i kick a homeless person. home hopefully a mentally ill
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one. >> oh, yeah, definitely, this is reagan's birthday: >> john: this is only going to get meaner. >> i took nancy out for a nice lunch. >> john: how was that? >> i was baked. she rolled, and neither one of us remembered. >> john: that's lovely. now that we've lost the entire g.o.p. viewing demographic. that brings plea to tonight's f-bomb. there is always so much pressure on how to best celebrate. should i declare ketchup is a vegetable for all those over-funded public school kids or shut down all those defunded mental hospitals so those folks can get some fresh air or just never mention aids? too late. there are so many ways to celebrate ronald reagan's achievements. like vetoing any sanctions
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against south african apartheid. horror union busting the air traffic controllers even though he used to run an union and all. and signing california's therapeutic abortion act of 67 into law. arming saddam hussein and opposing any sanctions against him after hey gassed his own people. pretty impressive if you consider bill clinton could nut even pull off one lousy hummer. i don't want to be me mean to him. i might talk about how he tried really hard to keep martin luther king jr. from becoming a holiday, how about raising
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